Rebels Without a Clause: Dialectics of Charlottesville Events
In this podcast we offer some thoughts on the developing ideological trends that emerged to to the surface in the aftermath of recent, highly publicized, Alt Right/Antifa clash in Charlottesville, USA. Kali Tribune’s position according to which the two extremes are one and the same identitarian black hole seems to be reinforced by this event.
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Thank you Branco. Very refreshing indeed. I wish we could have more people speaking with this much objectivity and clarity here in the States.
Are you familiar with the work of Paul Virilio?
Tell me about it. I can’t believe the hysteria people are being swept away in.
I know who he is, but never read anything by him.
Branko (sir), new listener from the US here. What do you think about the Russian Empire and the White Russians, both themselves and their ideas? Is there an influence that you can see in the goings on both in the West and the East?
You should look at Branko’s lectures on Heidegger, Dugin, and the Order of the Nine Angles. He has discussed these topics pretty extensively lately.
I’m not that proficient in the history of Russian civil war to speak with any authority on this. What I can say is that Russians themselves have very ambivalent attitude towards Whites. For example, Alexander Dugin, and people leaning to his side of ideological spectrum, denounce them as “Atlanticists”, i.e. the enemies of Russian messianic destiny that was pushed forward by Boslheviks. As for the idea that Bolshevik coup d etat was engineered by the West, I consider it reductionist and quite to the contrary of what prominent contemporary Russian imperialist hold to be true, i.e. that Revolution was a valid expression of Russian spirit or/and the conglomerate of historical circumstances.
I don’t think that conspiratorial view is flat out wrong – at the level of mainstream history it definitely is not, because we all know that Bolsheviks were imported into Russia at the volatile moment precisely to create chaos. But it is reductionist and ignores the wider historical reality.
As for the Russian empire itself, I think it had its moment of cultural flourish precisely in the 20 or years before Revolution (the so called “silver age”). Like all older social forms, i.e. pre-modern or semi-modern ones, I’d say it is well nigh incomprehensible from our standpoint. Insofar it was understood as a carrier of an ideal of Russians as Messianic people of “Third Rome”, I loath it and find remarkable that proponent of this idea easily fuse it with communism, taking Soviet Union even as a more perfect form of such messianic empire.
That sounds utterly opposite to both Orthodox theology and general traditionalism. I did read the articles on dugin and the nine angles it was very interesting. It becomes easier and easier to see the influence in certain spheres.
However I don’t see the alt-right as being strictly duginist necessarily.
It is not strictly Duginist. But Spencer is, to a large extent. Also the main publishing venture Arktos was founded precisely for the purpose of publishing Dugin in English. I argue that the movement is far more monolithic than it appears to be and the leadership is more or less into post-nazi revival, i.e. nazism of Imperium – a racial superstate.
Improved audio added
Beyond issues of identity politics, there is another layer to Charlottesville that needs be taken into consideration. This article by an anarchist puts its finger on the nerve of the issue and why last weekend was not simply the “clash of identities”. Let me quote the decisive passage:
“…These [alt-right Nazi] groups hope to be to Trump what ISIS is to Erdogan and what the Taliban is to the government of Pakistan: terrorist auxiliaries that provide strategic depth against enemies of the state…”
[Note: The article was written and published before Bannon was shoved out of the White House yesterday]
I think as someone who experienced the Balkan war of the 1990s in ex-Yugoslavia, even if you disagree with the author’s political identity, you cannot appreciate where he is coming from. After all it was Milosevic who incited the Serbian para-militaries in Bosnia and elsewhere while having plausible deniability (per his Hague testimony) about the actual direct locus of their creation. Similarly is going on here.
Milosević needed plausible deniability because he had to keep the Western politicians and their public at bay in order to accomplish his goals. I don’t think Trump needs to fear some new Hague court, so I don’t think he really needs plausible deniablity, save in the sense to screw mainstream media. But that’s hardly the same thing.
Also the politics of Balkan and US are worlds apart. Sometimes you can get an image of analogy, but it shows to be really deceptive when you start to get into details. There’s a real “byzantinism” at work here in the sense that there’s a historical continuity and in Yugoslavia it was reinforced by communist model of governance which was a web of clients and patrons where everything lay in an ability to speak the arcane language of party and allying to right courtiers of the Central Comity at the right time. It was more akin to medieval court than modern state like USA.
So by having a car smash into a crowd of people because the driver panicked after being attacked by bats, alt right is Trump’s ISIS? That’s pretty rich. I mean, I get it’s easy to kick them now with every Hollywood actor and corporate CEO already at it, but come on.
Ne znam baš da li je to bilo zbog toga što se uspaničio. Rekao bih da je sasvim moguće da mu je cilj bila Arctogeia gdje ga čekaju arijevske djevice. Mislim da nema izlaza iz tog kaosa gledajući lijevo ili desno na način kako to rade alt right i identitetska ljevica. Možda bi im mi mogli ponuditi know how? Kod nas je periodičko miniranje kipova već stari narodni običaj.
Ne radi se ovdje o ideološkom slaganju ili neslaganju tj o mišljenju o izlazu iz kaosa, što god mislili o njima zamisao da bi se išao namjerno zabit u hrpu ljudi sa pristankom samog vodstva pokreta je glupa. Čak ako se radi o pojedincu koji bi tako nešto učinio namjerno (a čisto sumnjam da je to slučaj s obzirom na snimke), alt right u cjelini sigurno nije tako nešto planirao niti od toga profitirao što bi bio slučaj da su “Trumpov ISIS”. Više mi se čini da je po srijedi tipični nedostatak refleksije kod antifa tipova koji ne znaju analizirati poteze protivnika ni na koji drugi način nego nabacujući šuplje uvrede. Oni su nacisti, pa su time i ISIS, pa im time i smrde noge itd.
Priznajem, nema puno smisla. Premda, čini mi se da je momak prilično spaljen od sebe tako da bih rekao da je možda stvarno poželio zaslužiti Raj. Kako god, žao mi auta.